Episode 90: Black Lives Matter

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Paige: You are listening to “Coffee with Gringos.” I'm Paige Sutherland.

Ian: And I'm Ian Kennedy.

Paige: And so today, we are going to talk about some historic protests that are going on right now in the US, all over the country, and it's about police brutality, particularly against African Americans in the US. And so, it's a very sensitive topic, but it's a very important one and an issue that has been going on for quite some time now in the US. And so, if you get lost, remember to check out that audio guide and transcript online. Okay, Ian, so this all started about two weeks ago with a very specific incident involving some white police officers and an African American man who was getting arrested. Give us a little background about what happened in the video and all that.

Ian: Sure. So, this event's been circulating in news all over the world. So, I'm sure a lot of people have heard about it, but for those of our listeners who maybe aren't aware of what's going on, we'll just give a little background to what's happening. So, an African American man named George Floyd was in a store in Minneapolis, which is a large city in the north of the US, near Canada, and he tried using a counterfeit, or a fake, dollar bill to buy some cigarettes. And so, the store owner called the police. So, the police came and we're questioning him, asking him all these questions. Things became violent, and one of the police officers, there were four police officers, one of the police officers, put Mr. Floyd down on the ground and had his knee and his neck for, I think, a total of nine minutes. And during this time, there were bystanders who were filming the incident. And it's a really disturbing video but you can hear and see George Floyd saying, “I can't breathe…I can't breathe. I'm dying…I'm dying.” The police officer never got off his neck, never showed any restraint, never helped him, medically, which is a policy for police. If somebody is in medical distress, you have to help them. And so, not only did this officer not take as his knee off of his neck, but the other three officers didn't do anything to stop him, anything to help. So, after nine minutes, he was unresponsive, they put him in an ambulance and took him to the hospital where he was pronounced dead. I think we see a big outburst in the public, because of this incident, because one, it was filmed in such a disturbing and transparent way, so everybody could see what was happening. Second, this is just systemic racism that's really plagued the black community for years and years and years. And so, it kind of reached, it seems, like it reached the boiling point in which the black community especially said enough is enough. You know, for centuries they've been victims to police brutality, to mistreatment. And so now we see in many, many cities throughout the US: protests, looting fires, kind of, chaos. And it's something that we see a lot happen, you know, you hear about a black person who was killed by the police and maybe they were either unarmed or maybe even innocent. And it's hard to explain to people who don't live in the United States who aren't from there because for us, it's terrible to say but it's almost like it's something normal. It's like you read about police brutality, this person was killed, this black person was killed and it just repeats and repeats and repeats. So, I think now that we're in 2020, we're thinking how much longer does this have to go on? And so, it's reached a point where things are getting violent and real change is needed if we want to move forward.

Paige: Like you were saying, you know, enough is enough. It just really reminded me of the social uprising in Santiago, Chile, and the whole messaging around that was, you know, it wasn't about a metro fare increase, it wasn't about thirty pesos, it's about thirty years. And I think these protests that have erupted in the US, it's not about just George Floyd, it's not this one incident, it's been dozens of incidents over so many years that everyone, like you said, is just fed up. So, I mean, what's crazy is this exact scenario of George Floyd happened about six years ago with Michael Brown, and that was, again, like protests, people were demanding change on the street. And then we're talking 2020, now and the same thing happens, and it's like nothing's changed. The policies are the same, the black people are still being arrested, more still being killed and injured, unarmed. And it's also kind of terrifying because nowadays, police wear body cams and everyone has a video camera on their phone, so it's all captured and it's all there. And yet, a lot of these police officers are rarely held accountable. So, it's kind of like, what?

Ian: Yeah, I think that's where a lot of the other anger comes too is, you know, you hear about these police officers when these incidents do happen, like you said, they're not held accountable. We see a lot of cases where a police officer kills an innocent black person or an unarmed black person, they go to court, and they're acquitted of their crimes. And this is, obviously, this is outrageous and, you know, very unfair. Imagine if your son or your daughter was killed by a police officer for no reason and then that police officer walks away. I would be infuriated. Like you said, it's just an unfair system. Kind of like you mentioned here, it's not thirty pesos, it's thirty years. It's not just George Floyd, it's years and years and years of innocent killings, of not holding the police system accountable, of not treating people as equal. You know, we say this all the time, “all men are created equal,” but our country doesn't actually practice what they preach, in that sense.

Paige: It's tough too because, obviously in the video, those particular cops are bad. Like, they should go to jail, they committed crimes. And in a lot of these cases, there are bad cops and there are good cops. But I think the biggest problem, and this happens in all countries, is people are racist because the systems and policies are racist. And so, it's more than just holding these specific police officers accountable, it's changing policies across the board. Because that man in the video clearly did what he did because he thought he could. And he thought he could because the department or the system he was under had racial tendencies. I mean, it's silly to not mention our president. I mean, President Trump says racist things all the time. And when you have a leader of the country saying that, it makes it feel okay for everyone else to think and say that. Until we change the rhetoric, change our systems or policies, we can arrest all the bad cops we want but we're still going to have a racist system.

Ian: Exactly, you make a good point. You know, it's like of course there's always a few bad apples in an orchard. But if the system is corrupt, then you're going to keep producing those kinds of results or those kinds of people. I, personally, I'm not a big fan of the police, I'll just go ahead and say it, but I don't want to be ignorant and say that all cops are bastards or what, you know, like the old phrase or all cops are bad, all cops are evil. That's not fair to say because it's not true, but it is important to recognize that these people have made the choice to enter into a corrupt system. And it's important that they realize that. You don't have to say this person is a bad person or a bad cop but they should realize that they're a part of a bad system, that they’re part of a corrupt system, a system that needs change. You know, for that reason we see a lot of these tensions between the police and protesters, right? Protesters see police as this oppressive, authoritative force that are infringing on equality and rights. The police feel like they're just trying to keep order, to do their job, but a lot of times, that job involves unnecessary violence or overreaching their boundaries. And, like you said, someone who feels like they're entitled with power because they've joined the system. And so, it's really disheartening to see protests happening and see videos of police beating peaceful protesters, shooting rubber bullets, using pepper spray, tear gas. Again, reminiscent of things that we've seen here in Chile with the peaceful protests. So, I have to say, you know, I don't support the looting, I think the looting also is wrong—you know, stealing and breaking stores. But kind of like what we talked about before this call even, if someone were to say to me that they think the property or the looting, these items are more important than an innocent life that was taken, that's where I have a problem. So, these things can be replaced, but someone's life can't be replaced. We have to be real with ourselves about what the problem is and what's important and what priorities need to be moved forward—what priorities need to be solved.

Paige: Exactly. I mean, like you said, it's impossible not to draw comparisons from what happened in October in Chile and what's happening here in the US. And the rhetoric, the conversation is so similar. You have the government and authority focused on the looting, on the destruction and it takes away and distracts from the message. And the message is, we have police brutality in this country targeted at minorities, specifically African Americans, and that's wrong and it needs to change. And it's been needed to change for years now. And so, I think it's hard when all you hear in the mass media, and all you hear from people who aren't really for the protest, is just the violence, the destruction and they don't spend a second on the cause—the reason why people are protesting. And that's what we should be talking about. And I think just like a little background for our listeners in the US, the Black Lives Matter campaign has been really strong for years now, but it's created a lot of tension, I think, in the US because Black Lives Matter has resulted in people that don't agree with the protesters to adopt the phrase, “All Lives Matter”, as well as because this Black Lives Matter is targeted against police, there's also adopted the phrase “Blue Lives Matter.” Blue because cops in the US wear blue uniforms. And these kinds of phrases have caused a lot of contention because it's like all lives matter, yes, but to the protesters, it's like you're not seeing race. And if you don't see race, you don't see discrimination, you don't see inequalities. Right?

Ian: Exactly.

Paige: These phrases kind of have pit everyone against each other which isn't constructive.

Ian: And just a quick reminder, if you are interested in taking private classes with Dynamic English, go ahead and check out our website at dynamicenglish.cl and there you can sign up for private classes in your apartment, in your house, in your office. You can even now take classes online. Sitting on your couch, you can log on and practice English. It’s very easy. So, if you're interested, check us out also on social media through Facebook or Instagram.

Ian: Of course, all lives matter—no one's debating that. But we need to highlight the importance of the topic that's the point of the Black Lives Matter. It's that you need to give specific attention to this problem that's existing. So, to not acknowledge that is, basically, to be part of the problem. Like you said, it's like a statement that should be so obvious and accepted by everyone is considered controversial. I heard a comedian, say a joke—a black comedian—said a joke about it and said, “You know, people are offended by the Black Lives Matter and we're using the word ‘matter’…Black Lives MATTER. It's, like, should I change it to something that everyone can agree on? Black Lives Exist? Or something like this?” He's not saying that black lives matter more, he’s just saying, black lives matter. I don't find that to be a very controversial statement. And so, you really made a good point to me that, you know, that's so true. You know, no one's saying that other lives don't matter but we have to highlight this specific problem in order for the change to actually happen, right? And if people don't confront that, if people stay silent or if they want to deny that statement—Black Lives Matter—then you're not helping. You're not helping with the problem.

Paige: Yeah, I agree. I think what you hear a lot from people who aren't for the protest is “Oh no, I'm not racist. I don't see color.” But that's racist because you have to see color because there is so much inequality. White privilege is a thing—I have received a lot of benefits because of my race. It's just a fact and you have to accept that. You have to see color because that's how we're going to be more equitable. So, I think when people say, “Oh, black lives matter, all lives matter.” The only message they're saying is that black lives have been suppressed for so long that that needs to change and we need to recognize it. And if we don't recognize the inequalities, we'll just have the status quo.

Ian: Exactly. And by the way, anytime I hear someone start a phrase with, “Well, I'm not racist…” they’re probably gonna say something racist. So, when I hear that I'm like, “Oh, brother. Here we go.” I'm gonna hear someone say something like, “Well, I have a black friend…” and that automatically makes them able to be okay to say whatever. So, it's a good point you bring up about, you know, about white privilege. I think a lot of people in the United States, a lot of white people, like ourselves, it's kind of hard to be real with yourself and admit, you know, that white privilege exists. And that as white people, life is just easier—it really is. It's just easier for white people in the United States compared to black people. If you want to talk about historical favoritism or, you know, having advantages, it's always benefited white people. Again, this is not to say that people should feel guilty for being white. I'm not saying that because just like being born black, you can't control being born white. So, you shouldn't feel guilty, but you just need to acknowledge that it exists—that you have an easier path to success than a black person does in the United States. To not accept that, I also think is part of the problem. You're just not being real with yourself, and it should be a more equitable system in which people have the same opportunities to be successful, to be happy. And we've seen through years through politics, through government regulations, it's been harder for black people to get loans, if they do get a loan, it's a higher interest loan. Banks won't let them buy certain houses or live in certain neighborhoods and so, this has caused this systemic division and the systemic racism that we see perpetuated today. You know, I talk with friends and I'm like, we should always remind ourselves of how lucky we are. You know, me in my case, I was born male, white, and American. You know, that's kind of like hitting the jackpot in terms of a start in life. So, you just have to be real with how the system treats certain people, and again, don't be guilty, but just be aware of what's happening.

Paige: No, I agree, and it's always difficult when you're white to try to be in another race’s shoes because we can never understand it—we just can't. All we can do is really listen, and, acknowledge our privilege.

Ian: You know, I think people too now, they're realizing more, I hope they're realizing more, that this is a time when, maybe, we should all shut up and just listen.

Paige: Yeah.

Ian: We just need to open our ears and listen to what the black community is saying, how they feel, what they want improved and without listening to the people that are actually suffering these injustices, we're just going to keep perpetuating this mistreatment. Because if you can't put yourself in their shoes, then you can’t understand them, you can’t understand the changes that are needed.

Paige: I think what's happening, especially like in our generation and the younger generations and did not happen in our parents’ or grandparents’ [generation], is we're being more careful about how we say things. How you say things is so important because it perpetuates racism. And so, there's a good vocab word, I was talking to my students about the other day is microaggression. And so, there's a lot of these phrases that we all are guilty of saying and, you know, I think as a society we are improving. But we have a long way to go of just things that are blatantly racist but have racial undertones, right? Like “Oh, I see someone wearing baggy pants who's black so, he's a thug or he's a criminal.” Like, that's a microaggression because we're associating this race with a bad, negative behavior. That's something that, like with these protests too, we have to acknowledge some of the stuff we say that might seem really harmless but it is really harmful.

Ian: Yeah, exactly. This kind of language, you know, sometimes you say things that you don't think about the impact of it. But yeah, really, you're perpetuating this kind of problem we're talking about by saying these things. Again, it's just acknowledging it and understanding and listening. I think that's the key to understanding and this is something we can't forget—we can't just move on to the next story. If this doesn't get solved, we're just going to continue to have this violence and this systemic racism. So, this is a moment when we really have to act. This is America's moment of reckoning for the social injustices, these racial injustices. So, my hope is just—fingers crossed—something actually happens out of this.

Paige: I couldn't agree more. And I think it is in a good time because we all are inside, we're on our phones, we’re online. I mean, when these cases happen, I think they were kind of in the national bubble, but now, the whole world is looking at the US and realizing that we have this huge racial problem. I just think there's a lot of pressure for them to do something, and I hope they actually do change some policies. So, well, this is a very sensitive topic but very necessary.  You have to have these hard conversations to actually make some changes. So, listeners, if you get lost, check out that audio guide and transcript online. Stay safe, thanks for listening.

Ian: And we'll catch you next time.

Paige: “Coffee with Gringos” was brought to you by Dynamic English, where you can learn English simply by using it. If you’re interested in taking classes or just want to learn more, go to our website at dynamicenglish.cl. Thanks for listening.

Key Vocabulary, Phrases & Slang:

 1.     police brutality (noun): physical violence used by the police against citizens.

a.     Police brutality is a major problem that we face today.

2.     to circulate (verb): to spread, to move around.

a.     The story is circulating in global news.  

3.     bystander (noun): a person who is present at an event or incident but does not take part.

a.     The bystanders filmed the police brutality with their phones.

4.     disturbing (adjective): upsetting, worrying, troubling.

a.     The video of the violence is very disturbing.  

5.     restraint (noun): the action of keeping something or someone under control.

a.     The officer showed no restraint in handling the situation.  

6.     distress (noun): extreme anxiety or pain.

a.     The man was in distress as he laid on the ground.

7.     unresponsive (adjective): unable to move or respond; unconscious.

a.     The victim was unresponsive when the police sent him to the hospital.

8.     outburst (noun): a sudden reaction or release of emotions for a particular reason.

a.     The social outburst in the US has been caused due to police violence against blacks.

9.     transparent (adjective): clear, visible, open to the public.

a.     Videos have made police brutality more transparent to the public.

10.  to plague (verb): to cause continual trouble or distress.

a.     The black community has been plagued for centuries by the current system.

11.  boiling point (noun): when anger or excitement turns to violence.

a.     The people have reached a boiling point with the police.

12.  looting (noun): stealing goods from a place during a riot or war.

a.     There has been widespread looting in the US since the start of the protests.

13.  unarmed (adjective): without weapons.

a.     The killing of unarmed citizens needs to end.

14.  to erupt (verb): to break out or explode suddenly and dramatically.

a.     Violence erupts in the US as protesters go to the streets.  

15.  fed up (adjective): to be annoyed or upset with a situation or treatment.

a.     I’m so fed up with the way that police treat citizens, especially black citizens.

16.  body cams (noun): body cameras that police are required to use while conducting police work.

a.     Body cams have allowed for more visibility and transparency to police actions.

17.  accountable (adjective): responsible.

a.     Bad police need to be held accountable for their actions.

18.  to acquit (verb): to free someone of a criminal charge.

a.     People are tired of seeing police acquitted for their crimes.

19.  infuriated (adjective): extremely angry.

a.     The family of the victim was infuriated to hear that the officer was acquitted.  

20.  across-the-board (adjective): affecting everyone and everything in an organization or system.

a.     Across-the-board violence has everyone infuriated and fed up.

21.  tendencies (noun): patterns or habits towards a particular behavior.

a.     The racial tendencies of police departments is a major problem.  

22.  rhetoric (noun): language used to persuade or impress people.

a.     The rhetoric for police has been the same in the country for years and years.

23.  orchard (noun): place used for planting and growing fruit.

a.     The apple orchard is located five miles from the house.

24.  to infringe (verb): to limit or restrict.

a.     People feel like the police are infringing on their personal rights.

25.  to overreach (verb): to overuse or overdo something.

a.     The police are overreaching their authority every day.

26.  entitled (adjective): deserving of privileges or special treatment.

a.     The police feel as if they are entitled to use as much power as they like.

27.  disheartening (adjective): disappointing, discouraging.

a.     The violence in the streets is disheartening.

28.  reminiscent (adjective): similar, reminding of something in the past.

a.     The current protests are reminiscent of the Civil Rights Movement.

29.  minority (noun): a smaller group of people that are discriminated against due to race, religion, etc.

a.     Minorities have always been treated as less in the history of the country.

30.  cop (noun, slang): police.

a.     Cops need to realize that they are a part of a corrupt system.

31.  contention (noun): heated disagreement or argument.

a.     Black Lives Matter has caused contention among society.

32.  discrimination (noun): unjust mistreatment of different categories of people based on race, age or sex.

a.     We cannot allow the discrimination of minorities anymore.

33.  to pit against (phrasal verb): to cause people to fight each other.

a.     The protests are pitting everyone against each other in the streets.

34.  to confront (verb): to accept or face a problem that exists.

a.     People need to confront the privileges and mistreatments that exist in society.

35.  to suppress (verb): to prevent something from happening.

a.     The city could not suppress the rising violence.

36.  status quo (noun): the existing, current state of social or political issues.

a.     The status quo of the police system needs to be changed.

37.  equitable (adjective): fair, just, impartial.

a.     Everyone deserves an equitable chance at success.

38.  loan (noun): borrowed money expected to be paid back.

a.     It has been harder for minorities to secure loans from banks.  

39.  systemic (adjective): relating to a system.

a.     People are tired of seeing systemic violence toward blacks.

40.  to perpetuate (verb): to continue indefinitely.

a.     Systemic racism is perpetuated every day in the US.

41.  to hit the jackpot (idiom): to have great success or luck.

a.     We really hit the jackpot by investing in Apple in the 1980’s.  

42.  to be in someone else’s shoes (idiom): to understand someone else and their position.

a.     It’s important to be in someone else’s shoes to be able to understand their problems.

43.  microaggression (noun): statement or action that intentionally or unintentionally discriminates against someone of a different race, gender, religion, etc.

a.     The students discussed moments when they faced microaggressions.

44.  blatantly (adverb): obviously, clearly.

a.     The police were blatantly beating peaceful protestors in public.

45.  undertone (noun): a subtle or hidden meaning to something.

a.     The racial undertones that we hear every day are a part of the problem.

46.  baggy (adjective): loose-fitting.

a.     Police see black people with baggy pants and automatically think they’re criminals.

47.  thug (noun, slang): violent criminal, member of a gang or criminal organization.

a.     President Trump called the protestors thugs and created more anger.

48.  reckoning (noun): the punishing and correcting of past mistakes.

a.     Now is the time for the police’s reckoning and hopefully, actual changes will be made to the system.