Episode 89: The Dark History of Racism in the United States

Listen to this Episode of "Coffee with Gringos" here or on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play and Stitcher.

Note: Given the current events of racial protests happening in the United States around the death of African-American man, George Floyd, in Minneapolis, we thought it would be a good opportunity to give our listeners a better understanding of the roots behind racism in the US. This episode was recorded in March before these current events and, therefore, there is no mention of the George Floyd killing.

Ian: Hey everyone, you're listening to “Coffee with Gringos.” I'm Ian Kennedy.

Paige: And I'm Paige Sutherland.

Ian: And today, Paige and I have another hot topic to discuss with everybody. It's a little bit touchy but it's something important to discuss when understanding cultures, and that is race. So, we're going to talk a little bit about the history of race—at least in the United States that we are familiar with—growing up, how things are today and how we think things might be in the future. So, Paige—race. It's a contentious topic. Some people are afraid to talk about it but I think it's worth talking about. So, the US is pretty complex when it comes to race. How about we give our listeners a little bit of a background for what the racial makeup is like in the United States.

Paige: In the US, you have a large majority of white people who are mostly European descent. You have a lot of African-Americans, a lot of Latinos. I think, depending on geography, I think there's a lot of racism towards African Americans all over the country. I think when it comes to Latinos it's more along the border—I would say it's a little stronger. But I think when you talk about the US, you can't not talk about racism towards black people. You know, it's part of our history, it still exists today. I mean, we have laws, for decades, that where we enslaved black people. We have laws where we segregated them where you couldn't use the same bathrooms, you couldn't use certain restaurants or hotels or be in certain places or where to sit on the bus. And so, I think, I get a lot of those questions when I have classes with my students because they don't understand why there's this tension and racism towards black people and my answer is always that you have to learn the history, because we've been wronging this race for centuries, and it, kind of, unfortunately, there’s still a lot of racism today. Would you agree?

Ian: Yeah, unfortunately, I'd say it's something that definitely still exists. I think we've seen improvements especially since the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s, but yeah, it's something that you can still see every day, unfortunately. And I think it'll continue for a while but, again, like you said, you have to look at the history of the US. So having such a slave culture for hundreds of years, you know, that's going to really affect the makeup of a country and in the demographics and the cultures. And I explain to people, you know, explain that yeah, with at the end of the Civil War in the 1860s, the United States, technically emancipated slaves, but it was kind of a façade because what happened right after was something called Jim Crow laws. And for those of you listening, Jim Crow laws essentially were laws that were able to be passed, especially in communities in the southern part of the United States, that were basically a way to get around the new constitutional law that freed slaves. It was a way to basically keep slaves seemingly inferior, right? To have still less rights, to essentially still be working for very little to no money. And this perpetuated up until, you know, the 1960s when we saw the Civil Rights Movement really come to a head with Malcolm X, Martin Luther King Jr. and all these figures that, you know, that we applaud today. So that's a big one for my students, that is, kind of, shocking for them that they're not aware of this history that continued of segregation, of racism, of treating blacks really poorly, even after the Civil War. A lot of them think, okay Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves and everything was gravy after that. And, unfortunately, unless you have lived in the United States, that's something you can't really understand.

Paige: I agree. I mean, going back to what you're saying about the Jim Crow laws. I actually read a book recently called The New Jim Crow Laws and it talks about how we don't have these segregated laws on the books anymore because we abolished them, but they still exist today because we have this segregation in all our systems across all platforms. Black people are incarcerated more, they're arrested more, they're kicked out of apartments, employment, universities. Fortunately, it's getting better but the system is still very flawed where they're not legally being segregated but they are because the system is geared towards white people. And so, you, kind of, have this movement of, “Oh, we had a first black president. You know, there's no more racism towards black people.” And that's a lie. I mean, yeah, I think he gave people a lot of hope. You know, that, one day, you know, there can be more black people in power and rise above but there's still so much inequality in the US.

Ian: Yeah, you're totally right and going off of what you mentioned about, you know, blacks and Latinos and these other races being incarcerated more, they're just straight up targeted more by the police. You know, they get pulled over in their cars more, maybe if they're walking in the street and a policeman thinks they look quote unquote “suspicious” they'll start questioning them. In New York City, there was a really controversial policy called “stop and frisk”, which was exactly that. You know, when you frisk someone it's when you search their whole body to see if they have weapons or drugs. Somebody of this race might be walking down the street and if a policeman, if a cop, thinks that they look suspicious, they'll stop them start asking them questions, start patting them down. And, typically, that doesn't happen to white people, just to be honest. I mean, it's very clear to see that they get targeted and you see in the news all the time, you know, “police brutality against this black person”, “this black person died being arrested”, “this person died being shot by a police officer,” who they didn't have weapons, they weren't doing anything to threaten this officer’s life. And we see a lot of times these officers are acquitted of their crimes, right? So, there's outrage on all sides of how are these people getting away with this? How is this justifiable? And a lot of people point to race. So unfortunately, you know, we keep seeing these things perpetuate and like you said, I think things are getting better—slowly better and better which is something to be happy about. But it's very ignorant to say that it doesn't exist anymore or things are totally okay because it's clear that they're not.

Paige: Going back to what you're saying, with the police brutality. I was reading this article about how black families have to teach their young children how to be around police officers. You know, put your hands up, don't reach for your pockets, you know, don't say anything, how you should look, how you should address them—things that a white kid would never ever be taught. I mean, when I see a police officer, it would never cross my mind as a white female that he would think I had a gun or think I was dangerous or arrest me for no reason. It never crossed my mind. But unfortunately, when you live in a country where it does happen much more to black people, they have to teach their kids that. I mean, that's really sad to hear. I think there's an expression for it called “white privilege.” And, I think, the older I've gotten, the more I've realized how fortunate I've been in situations that would have gone very differently if I wasn't white. So, I think it's important to realize that racism does exist so that you can own up to the fact that you are, you know, given certain rights and privileges that other races aren't.

Ian: It's true, yeah. The older I get; I feel the same way. I kind of realize these things and I try to understand the perspective of other people and, yeah, I understand that not everybody has had it as easy as me.

Paige: And quick reminder, don't forget if you want to advance your English more learn more, go online to dynamicenglish.cl where you can take private classes, you can take group classes, you can even now take classes online.

Ian: Let's move on a little bit to something that's been topical also in the US regarding race and like you mentioned with more the Latino issue it's more of something over immigration. So, in the last couple of years we've seen a lot of immigrant detention centers, a lot of separating families. I mean, I think that was the last year the big controversy happened where a lot of families, the children were separated from their parents. Some children even died in custody. And, you know, people were saying these are human rights violations, how could you ever separate a child from them? From their family? And, yeah, it's terrible to see. For that issue, it's more of the typical “these immigrants are coming in, they're taking our jobs, they're affecting the economy. These jobs should be for American citizens not for illegal people.” And this isn't something we only see in the US but it's definitely a big issue in the US—especially with the Mexico—US border. I don't know if you have any thoughts or any more insights into that?

Paige: Unfortunately, I feel like a lot of the racist people that I've met in my life, a lot of them are just uneducated. I think we've probably talked about this in past episodes but I think the statistic is, around 50% of people in the US have passports. So, you're talking about half the country isn't ever leaving the country, not being exposed to new cultures, new races, new ideologies. So, I think, unfortunately, a lot of people who are racist, whether it's towards Latinos, blacks, Muslims, whatever is because they have never been exposed to that. And so, I always question someone who's racist who's saying “Oh go back to Mexico.” And I say, have you ever met a Mexican immigrant? And they say “no.” And it's like, so you hate this person that you've never met? You know nothing about them but yet you have all this hatred. So, I feel like I would love people in the US to travel more, be exposed to new cultures, new races and new viewpoints. Because I really don't think that we'd have so much of this racism if people just opened their eyes and traveled more.

Ian: Exactly, yeah. And it's human nature to be afraid of something you don't understand, right? And so, like you said, you have people who, they're in their bubble. They're in the US, “I like where I live, I like my people. Why would I ever go somewhere else?” I even hear people say that. And really what they're doing, is they're just closing themselves off to an opportunity to meet other people, to meet other cultures. You know, the more I travel, the more I realize we're all pretty much the same, right? Everybody goes to work in the morning, everybody takes their kid to school, and everybody, you know, wants to support their family and live a happy life. You know, all the cultural and atmospheric differences are pretty, you know, topical—pretty superficial if you really think about it. So, these people that don't get out of their bubble, they hear on the news, they're these dangerous immigrants crossing the border coming to take our jobs, coming to hurt our citizens and you know that's not true. Of course, you have a couple bad eggs in any situation, but to lump everybody together it's just completely unfair.

Paige: That's why it's always upset me about people who are racist, is they meet one person and identify them as representing the whole race. And I just wish people would see people as individuals. It's like, yeah you met this one guy, he happens to be black and he's a terrible person. That doesn't mean all black people are bad. So, I hate when people stereotype to the extreme because a lot of the problems that people hate about minorities are not their race, it's their economic status. So, it's like yeah, these people are poor, imagine their lives. They have four jobs, they can't get by, they, you know, can't provide for their families, they don't have food on the table. These are stresses that any race, any person would have. So, I feel like I hate when people are like, “Oh, it's their race.” And it's like, no, most of the problems they have is their economic status because of their race because they're kicked out of a lot of systems that we have the privilege of taking advantage of. So that kind of always makes me mad. It's, like, “Oh, this person sucks because of their race.” And it’s like, “no.”

Ian: And now what do we think is gonna happen moving forward? Do we think racism is gonna completely go away? Do we think it's gonna stay as it is? Do we think it's gonna get worse? What do you think? Are you optimistic? Or are you pessimistic about this particular issue?

Paige: I think I'm optimistic, especially because our generation and even the generation that's younger than us, are very progressive, very accepting, travel a lot. Which again, I can't say enough, I think traveling is the best education you can get. And so, I'm hopeful I think that the old school thinking of, you know, only think the way that you and your family think is dying out. I think people are loving to see different ideologies being exposed to different cultures. So, I'm hopeful.

Ian: Good, good. Yeah, I also I'm in the same boat with you—I'm hopeful. I think, like we've said, it's still a problem but I think as more progressive generations are getting older, we're seeing that race is less of an issue, more pluralistic, more open minded, and yeah, we just travel more and we see that people really aren't all that different, right? Fingers crossed things will keep getting better and maybe one day we'll all be able to hold hands and sing Kumbaya—hopefully. Alright everyone, so thanks for tuning in with us today. Again, a contentious topic but I think something important to touch on. So again, if you get lost, go online and check out that audio guide and transcript. Thanks for tuning in.

Ian: And we'll see you next time.

Paige: “Coffee with Gringos” was brought to you by Dynamic English, where you can learn English simply by using it. If you’re interested in taking classes or just want to learn more, go to our website at dynamicenglish.cl. Thanks for listening.

Key Vocabulary, Phrases and Slang:

 1.     hot topic (noun): current event, popular discussion.

a.     The news channel is always reporting the hot topics.

2.     touchy (adjective): sensitive, delicate.

a.     The situation is very touchy and we need to be careful.

3.     contentious (adjective): likely to cause an argument, controversial.

a.     The politicians will discuss the contentious topic later today.

4.     descent (noun): origin or background of someone’s family and/or nationality.

a.     She was able to find a good job because of her European descent.

5.     segregated (adjective): separated or divided due to race.

a.     The United States has an ugly, segregated history.

6.     tension (noun): difficult political or social relationship.

a.     The racial tension in the country is causing many problems.

7.     to wrong (verb): to treat someone dishonestly or unjustly.

a.     The system has been wronging minority races for years.

8.     Civil Rights Movement (noun, historical event): a struggle for social justice that took place mainly during the 1950s and 1960s for blacks to gain equal rights under the law in the United States.

a.     The Civil Rights Movement helped start the change for social justice for blacks.

9.     makeup (noun): foundation, demographics

a.     The makeup of the country is racially mixed.

10.  emancipated (adjective): free, liberated.

a.     While the slaves were technically emancipated, they still suffered injustices for years after the Civil War.

11.  façade (noun): outward appearance used to hide something.

a.     The emancipation of slaves was a façade due to Jim Crow laws.

12.  seemingly (adverb): supposedly, apparently.

a.     She was seemingly angry at the man for the comments he made.

13.  inferior (adjective): less or lower in status or quality, less than something else.

a.     Blacks have been treated as inferior in the United States.

14.  perpetuated (adjective): continued, never-ending.

a.     These injustices have been perpetuated for many years.

15.  to come to ahead (phrasal verb): to reach a crisis.

a.     The racial tensions have come to a head in many cities.

16.  to applaud (verb): to celebrate, to show approval for.

a.     We applaud the brave people who fought for civil rights.

17.  gravy (adjective, slang): good, fine.

a.     We don’t have any problems here, it’s all gravy.

18.  to abolish (verb): to formally end something, such as a system or practice.

a.     Many problems still exist even after abolishing slavery.

19.  incarcerated (adjective): imprisoned.

a.     Blacks and Latinos are unfairly incarcerated more than other races.

20.  flawed (adjective): imperfect, damaged.

a.     The systems that exist today are still very flawed and need to be improved.

21.  geared (adjective): suitable or favorable towards a certain group.

a.     The current system is geared to help some races more than others.

22.  to pull over (phrasal verb): to stop one’s car on the side of the road. The police “pull over” people in order to legally question them about their actions.

a.     The police pulled her over to ask her some questions.

23.  cop (noun, slang): policeman or policewoman.

a.     There are so many cops out in the city right now.

24.  to pat down (phrasal verb): touching someone’s clothes and bodies to search for weapons or drugs.

a.     Cops are more likely to pat down blacks who they consider dangerous compared to whites.

25.  to threaten (verb): to express the intention to harm or kill someone.

a.     The man was killed by police even though he never threatened anyone.  

26.  to acquit (adjective): to free someone of a criminal charge.

a.     The courts often acquit police officers that kill innocent citizens.

27.  outrage (noun): extremely strong reaction of anger, shock or indignation.

a.     Outrage fills the streets as protestors fight with police.

28.  justifiable (adjective): right, reasonable, defensible.

a.     The actions of the police are not justifiable and need to be punished.  

29.  to cross one’s mind (phrasal verb): to think of something, to realize.

a.     It crossed his mind to join in the protests but he was too nervous.

30.  to own up (phrasal verb): to take responsibility for something, to be accountable.

a.     The police need to own up to their actions.

31.  ideologies (noun): a system of ideas formed from economic or political theory and policy.

a.     The ideologies of the society make it difficult for any change to occur.

32.  superficial (adjective): existing or appearing at the surface, not the real truth.

a.     Appearances are superficial when it comes to human beings.

33.  bad egg (noun, slang): bad person.

a.     There are bad eggs in every race, not just in some.

34.  to lump everyone together (phrasal verb): to judge or define a person or group as completely the same.

a.     Ignorant people like to lump everyone together when it comes to immigrants coming to the country.

35.  to stereotype (noun): to judge someone based on racial ideas or misrepresentations.

a.     People too often stereotype other races because they don’t understand them.

36.  to get by (phrasal verb): to survive, to manage through a difficult situation.

a.     Many people are barely able to get by with the current injustices of our political system.

37.  optimistic (adjective): positive-thinking.

a.     She is the most optimistic person I have ever met in my life.

38.  pessimistic (adjective): negative-thinking.

a.     I don’t like to spend time with him because he is so pessimistic about everything.

39.  to be in the same boat (phrasal verb): to agree with someone, to have the same idea or thought.

a.     We are in the same boat when it comes to our personal views of immigration.

40.  pluralistic (adjective): accepting and understanding of multiple ideas and thoughts existing together.

a.     We need more pluralistic leaders in order to see any real change with this problem.

41.  Kumbaya (noun): African-American spiritual song often sung to represent peace and unity.

a.     The group joined hands and sang Kumbaya to express their support for peace.