Episode 99: A Discussion on Religion

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Paige: You're listening to “Coffee with Gringos.” I'm Paige Sutherland.

Ian: And I'm Ian Kennedy.

Paige: For today's episode we're going to talk about religion. Some of us are believers, some of us aren’t—doesn't matter—but we're going to talk a little bit about our experience growing up, our exposure to different religions. So again, if you get lost, check out that audio guide and transcript online. So, Ian. We haven't really talked about it but how were you raised religion-wise?

Ian: Sure. So, growing up in the Midwest in the US, most people are Christian, I would say the majority. And I guess it's probably safe to say the country, in general, is a pretty Christian country. In the Midwest, we have—to be honest—a lot of religious people. And so, it's very common to grow up with really religious families, religious friends. In my personal case, my family, we were, as I like to say, kind of like “diet” Catholics, so sometimes we would go to church on Sundays, we would go on Christmas or Easter. But to be honest, I never really bought into it one hundred percent. The longer that we went and the more I grew up, the more I became more of a non-believer. And so now today I would consider myself pretty much a nonbeliever. But yeah, where I'm from, there are mostly Evangelists, Baptists, Methodists, and being Catholic actually is a little bit more of a minority in Missouri, depending on where you live. So, for me, in particular, it was one of the smaller sects or groups. But yeah, a lot of religious presence—churches everywhere where I am from. Any of my foreign friends that come, they always say,” Oh my god, I've never seen so many churches before. What's up with this?” And it's true; every time I go home and visit, I probably see a couple of new churches built nearby my parents’ house and I’m not quite sure how I feel about it. What about you? Growing up in Boston what was it like religious wise? Did you grow up religious or around a lot of religious people?

Paige: Well, what’s kind of funny is my mom was raised in a religious family. My grandparents are very religious. My grandfather reads the Bible every night, which I don't get how because he's like 85. Isn't he bored of the same stories? But to each their own.  So, when I was younger, we would go to church, but my dad was not religious, and they both like to sleep in on Sundays, so the church was kind of a nuisance. So, my grandparents used to take us and when we got older, on Sunday I wanted to sleep in as well. We just stopped going. So, it was kind of more of the laziness of just not wanting to go to church on Sunday, but I feel like even though the church was present when I was growing up, it wasn't really part of our nuclear family. It was more the extended family. And then when I went to college, I went to a Catholic college. Which, honestly, it was called College of the Holy Cross which sounds ridiculously religious. People will ask me if I'm studying to be a nun. It was just a name—really there was no religious requirement. You didn't have to go to church and the majority of the people there were religious only for the label but didn't really practice the morality of it. So, it almost made me less of a believer. But I have to go back to you said you're a non-believer. What was your turning point that made you steer away from the church?

Ian: Well, I guess when you're younger it's pretty easy to buy into things in general—not just with religion. But when you're young, you're very impressionable, you're looking for answers for, you want explanations for things. And quite honestly, religion is an effective way to justify things and explain things and for me, I just looked at things and thought, “Is this real?” And I also had my grandpa who I was very, very close with. He was very realistic and a pretty agnostic non-believer as well and so, a lot of the influence of just kind of looking more into the behind the scenes of religion. So, more of the politics, more of the greed, more of manipulation. I think I looked into it more than when I was looking before. And also just like you said, the stories of the Bible, to be honest, for me it's just people say it's the “word of God” but it was written by human men, right? And to say that it's the direct “word of God” who we have no proof [God] even exists. For me, I'm a realist, so I see things around me and I believe in the things I see and the things that I hear, and the things I feel. Honestly, all these stories of the Bible and all this, I think they're a good way to live your life—they set good morals—but I think they're just not believable stories for me. And so, I just thought I'm going to focus on what's actually here and what I can enjoy and live in the now, instead of sacrificing a lot of things for this hope of maybe one day having this afterlife. So, I think I just want to take advantage of the life that I know that exists now compared to holding off to enjoy something that I don't even know if it really exists. So, a whole combination of things, but yeah, I guess just getting older and becoming more realistic and thinking for myself. And what about you? What do you think?

Paige: I don't like the word “atheist” because I'm not someone who believes in nothing. I'm more indifferent, I'd say. I'm not a believer, but I'm not a non-believer—I'm kind of just indifferent, honestly. And I feel like what I really like about religion, which you said, is that I think it's good to teach core principles and morals. So, I mean, I'm not having kids anytime soon but I want kids someday. And I feel like that's a question, I don't know if I want to raise my kids in church or not, because I think it does have a good foundation and I do like that it teaches you to be kind to your neighbors, enemies, all these kind of morals that are necessary to teach kids at that age. And then also I like the idea of family time every Sunday. You don't necessarily have to go to church but maybe go to brunch or do an activity because I feel like nowadays with families, it's so easy to see not see one another because you're on your phones or your screens or whatnot. So, I like the community that you have with your nuclear family like having something once a week, as well as teaching those principles that are basic but are necessary and a lot of people don't have them.

Ian: And just a quick reminder, if you are interested in taking private classes with Dynamic English, go ahead and check out our website at dynamicenglish.cl. And there you can sign up for private classes in your apartment, in your house, in your office. You can even now take classes online. Sitting on your couch, you can log on and practice English. It’s very easy. So, if you're interested, check us out also on social media through Facebook or Instagram.

Ian: Another thing growing up in the Midwest, there were a lot of people who would say, “I go to church every Sunday. I’m a Christian, so that makes me a good person.” And from Monday until Saturday, I would just see them on a daily basis, putting other people down, talking behind their back—really, in general, just being bad people. And then, they would go to church on Sunday and they could excuse every action they had. And that was another thing for me that I just kind of went, “How is this okay?” I just kind of saw through the bullshit and said just because somebody goes to church that doesn't make them a good person.

Paige: I couldn't agree more. Like I said, that was my revelation. When I went to a Catholic college, I had friends that were getting obliterated and hammered, sleeping around, and just being terrible people—the way they treated others. And then they would go to church on Sunday as if they were absolved from all their sins. And it’s like you said, it's an excuse and it's like, yeah, you can be religious if you're living those principles but you don't get absolved just because you go into a building on a Sunday. So that definitely opened my eyes a little bit more and why I got less religious going to a Catholic university. But I don't have any bad blood if people are religious or anything. It's everyone's choice whatever makes you happy, but I also agree with what you said about I don't like the idea of living for a life that isn't guaranteed. And all we know is that we have this life and it's like, be the best person you can be and if there's something at the end of it, then there is. If there isn't, there isn't. But I hate that idea that you're only living for another life that you don't even know is real. And it's also kind of misleading or deceptive because it's like, I'm only doing this so that I can get rewarded. And it's like, that's not why you should do things. It's like I'm going to donate or volunteer because then I'll get into heaven. And it's like, well, then you shouldn't because your motivations aren't pure.

Ian: Exactly. Yeah, you make a good point. Now, apart even just from Christianity, we have a lot of other religions. And like I said, the US is more of a Christian—overall—it’s more of a Christian country. So, like for me growing up, there wasn't a lot of presence of Islam. There weren't a lot of Muslims, not a lot of Hinduism, not a lot of Judaism. Some Judaism, but at least where I'm from, it's pretty purebred Christian for the most part with a few [other religions] sprinkled in there. Now I'm not sure maybe growing up in Boston and New England, it was maybe a little more pluralistic? Maybe you experienced living with Muslims? With Jews? What was it like?

Paige: Yeah. When I lived in South Africa, my roommate was Muslim. She was from Serbia and she was a confused Muslim because she was devout sometimes, but also not. So, when we lived together, she was in more of her devout phase. So, there were days where she would wear her burqa, and she would pray to Mecca a couple of times a day. I feel like religion is something that's personal, so she was Muslim and very devout, and we were really good friends but she never tried to convert me, never tried to preach to me, or put her ideas on me.  So, I loved living with her because she had her thing, and it was her thing but she never tried to make it my thing too. And I feel like that's important with religion. It’s like everyone has their own beliefs and they’re personal.

Ian: In my opinion, that's respecting religion in a respectful way when you're not trying to force it down other people's throats or saying, I do this so I am holier-than-thou and if you want to be as good of a person as me, you need to do what I do. I think anyone that says that for anything in life is a little misguided.

Paige: My roommate in college, she was born in a Catholic home, went to a Catholic university with me, and married a Jew, and she just converted last year. She got married, went to Jerusalem and did the whole thing. And that was very difficult for her because she was raised in a very—she's from the Midwest—she was raised in a very Catholic family. So, converting was kind of turning her back a little bit on her family. But they were obviously very accepting of the wedding, it was a Jewish wedding, which I went to in Wisconsin. And it was really nice to see that kind of wedding because I'd never been to a Jewish wedding and there's so much tradition in it. It’s kind of makes you want to be Jewish. You're like “Oh, this is fun.”

Ian: Since we are here in Chile and we've been here for a little while, what's your impression on religion here? Do you think there are many religious people?

Paige: That's a good question. I mean, I think it's traditionally a very religious country but because of the demographic—I’m a millennial—I think, in general, millennials aren't as religious. So, I feel like when I talk to people my age, I don't know. If people go to church, it’s mostly because their families are making them. But I think the older generations are definitely religious and kind of like that cookie-cutter, traditional Catholic. What about you?

Ian: Yeah, I agree. I mean, you see here in Santiago there's a lot of Catholic churches, you see Catholic symbols, but yeah, I agree. I think with the younger demographics—like millennials ourselves—I'm actually more surprised if I find out that somebody is religious, I think. If somebody tells me they go to church, they’re Catholic or whatever, I'm kind of like, “Wow, okay. I didn't know a lot of people still did that.” This one today was a little bit more of a contentious topic—a little bit complex—and there are lots of opinions. So, everybody, believe what you want to believe, practice what you want to practice, but please, be considerate of others.  So once again if you get lost, go online and check out that audio guide and transcript. So, thanks for tuning in with us.

Paige: We'll see you next time.

Paige: “Coffee with Gringos” was brought to you by Dynamic English, where you can learn English simply by using it. If you’re interested in taking classes or just want to learn more, go to our website at dynamicenglish.cl. Thanks for listening.

Key Vocabulary, Phrases, and Slang:

1.     diet (noun, slang): a more casual version or having less than the original (e.g. Diet Coke).

a.     She says she is a “diet” Hindu, meaning her family practices some religious practices, but not many.

2.     to buy into something (phrasal verb): to believe something to be true.

a.     I don’t buy into the things that religious leaders say.

3.     to each their own (idiom): everyone is allowed to have their own preference for something.

a.     I don’t understand why she goes to church, but to each their own.

4.     nuisance (noun): something or someone that is inconvenient or annoying.

a.     I don’t want to watch my nephew today. He is such a nuisance!

5.     nuclear (adjective): central; closest.

a.     My extended family is religious but my nuclear family is not.

6.     nun (noun): a woman who is a member of a religious community.

a.     She was very religious and wanted to become a Catholic nun.

7.     morality (noun): a system of values and principles between right and wrong.

a.     Religion and morality are connected to many people.

8.     to steer (verb): to guide or control the movement or direction of something.

a.     The captain steered the boat for many hours in the ocean.

9.     impressionable (adjective): easily influenced or persuaded.

a.     Children are so impressionable because the world is so new to them.

10.  agnostic (adjective): someone who believes that it is impossible to know whether or not God exists. Someone who is neither a believer or a nonbeliever.

a.     My grandfather was agnostic which had a great effect on me.

11.  behind the scenes (phrase): secretly.

a.     I want to know what happens behind the scenes in religious groups.

12.  manipulation (noun): the control or influence of someone or something.

a.     Religious manipulation of people has been happening for centuries.   

13.  afterlife (noun): life after death, usually represented by heaven and hell.

a.     An afterlife is not certain so we should enjoy life now.

14.  to hold off (phrasal verb): to wait; postpone

a.     People hold off enjoying life now so that they can get into heaven.

15.  atheist (noun): a person who believes that God does not exist.

a.     Atheists and religious people often can’t respect each other.

16.  indifferent (adjective): having no particular interest or preference; unconcerned.

a.     I’m indifferent when it comes to religion. I don’t care about it.

17.  brunch (noun): a late morning meal eaten instead of breakfast and lunch.

a.     Brunch is very popular on Saturdays and Sundays in the city.

18.  to put other people down (phrasal verb): to criticize other people; to be unkind to other people.

a.     She is such a mean girl. She is always putting other people down and making them feel bad.

19.  revelation (noun): a surprising and unknown fact which is usually dramatic.

a.     I had a revelation about my religious beliefs after the last time I went to church.  

20.  obliterated (adjective, slang): very drunk.

a.     My best friend was so obliterated at the party that he can’t even remember it.

21.  hammered (adjective, slang): very drunk.

a.     They act like religious angels and then get hammered every weekend.

22.  to sleep around (phrasal verb): to have casual sex with several people.

a.     She sleeps around but tells other people that they shouldn’t have sex before marriage.

23.  absolved (adjective): free from guilt or blame; innocent.

a.     She thinks she is absolved of her mistakes because she goes to church every Sunday.

24.  sin (noun): an act considered to be serious or bad; a fault or wrongdoing.

a.     She considers drinking alcohol a sin against God.

25.  bad blood (noun): ill or negative feeling or thought.

a.     There has always been bad blood between extreme religious groups.

26.  misleading (adjective): giving the wrong idea or impression.

a.     Religion can be misleading since we can’t prove that God is real.

27.  deceptive (adjective): misleading.

a.     Religious leaders can be deceptive towards their followers.  

28.  purebred (adjective): something pure; not mixed or different.

a.     The US is full of purebred Christians.

29.  to sprinkle (verb): to distribute or spread randomly or in small amounts.

a.     In the Midwest, Jews, Muslims, and Hindus are sprinkled among Christians.

30.  pluralistic (adjective): involving a diversity of different ideas and people coexisting together peacefully.

a.     The world would be a much better place if we could all be a little more pluralistic.

31.  devout (adjective): having a deep religious feeling or commitment.

a.     She is very devout and goes to church every week.

32.  burqa (noun): a long, loose clothing covering the entire body worn by many Muslim women.

a.     As a devout Muslim, she wears her burqa every day.

33.  to convert (verb): to change someone’s religious faith or beliefs.

a.     I hate when people try to convert me to their religion.

34.  to preach (verb): to publicly teach or express religious beliefs to other people.

a.     I see people preaching on the street all the time.

35.  holier-than-thou (adjective): believing that one is better than someone else because of their religious faith or beliefs.

a.     She is so holier-than-thou with her friends and makes them feel guilty for not being as religious as her.

36.  misguided (adjective): having unwise or foolish judgment or feelings.

a.     She is so misguided in her thinking that no one else can understand her opinion.

37.  to turn one’s back (idiom): to reject or abandon.

a.     She turned her back on her family by leaving the religion.

38.  demographic (noun): a particular section of a population.

a.     Younger demographics seem to be less religious than older demographics.

39.  cookie-cutter (adjective): ordinary; unoriginal; common.

a.     She is a very boring, cookie-cutter nun who doesn’t like any fun.

40.  contentious (adjective): controversial, debatable.

a.     Religion is a contentious but important topic to discuss.