Episode 168: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Listen to this Episode of "Coffee with Gringos" here or on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play and Stitcher.

Paige: You're listening to “Coffee with Gringos.” I’m Paige Sutherland.  

Ian: I'm Ian Kennedy.

Paige: And so today we are going to talk about something that is dominating the news cycle. It is the invasion of Russia into Ukraine, which is the first time in decades that we've had a war in Europe, and sadly, is impacting us all and is still ongoing. So, as we're recording now, it's Friday, March 4. So, this is an evolving story that will continue to change so, this is what we know now as of the recording. So, we're just going to talk a little bit about the basics, why Putin invaded Ukraine, what this means for the world. As always, listeners if you get lost, check out that audio guide and transcript online at www.dynamicenglish.cl. Okay, Ian—huge news. We all woke up on the morning of February 24th to hear that there was a war—basically a World War 3—a pretty dark day. What was your reaction? I know it was weeks of projection that Putin would invade Ukraine and this and that, but were you surprised when you woke up and heard that military actually did start bombing Ukraine?

Ian: Yeah, I think it was a little bit surprising just to see it actually happening. I know that for weeks before that there had been rumblings of possibilities of it happening and those who know Vladimir Putin and how he is, it was always a possibility that he could strike at any moment or decide that it was time to snatch up a little bit more of some former Soviet territory. And I think what was interesting is that we're in the middle of this global pandemic, global economic crisis everywhere and so maybe I think Putin just found it to be a good time to strike while everything's vulnerable. I think it was just surprising to see because this is modern warfare that we haven't really seen, especially in Europe for a long time. Of course, the US has been involved in a lot of different wars in the Middle East and a lot of different places but to see this happening with two other countries and in the matter and the way it happened, it was a little bit a little bit surprising. And just like we always say, just when we think things are going to start turning for the better, things get a little worse and a little more interesting. So, I think 2022, we're still at the beginning of it and we're having another wild here amongst the others that we've experienced.

Paige: It's true. I remember when it happened, there were all these memes on Instagram of just how our generation has just been really hit with all these huge firsts in a lifetime kind of events which, I guess one could say is exciting to live through these moments, but it feels a little like enough is enough. And it's crazy to think, obviously, I think most people know that Vladimir Putin, President of Russia, is a little dictatorship style of leadership and so I think people weren't necessarily shocked when he wanted to invade his neighboring country of Ukraine, but his reasoning was something that really was bizarre to me. These claims that the Jewish President of Ukraine was trying to basically brainwash the people to Nazi beliefs that, there was a genocide in the Kiev regime, just all these ridiculous claims that have not been verified at all for his reason of invading a country. Not only killing Ukrainian military soldiers, but hundreds of civilians as well. What was your reaction to his reasoning? I mean, it seems pretty out there.

Ian: Yeah, I wasn't really aware so much of his reasoning. I thought he was just wanting to snatch up land, but it doesn't surprise me that you tell that just because again, it's the guy we're talking about here. Like you said, he's a quote-unquote “president” but I think he's closer to a dictator so, I think, he comes up with reasons for doing these certain things. We saw in the last few years the annexation of Crimea that happened already that was also writing on the walls for what could come later what's happening now. But dictators find their reason to justify the kind of conquests they're trying to do or the movements they're trying to make. So, what else he says? Who knows what's the truth or not? But it's definitely a strange and developing situation. That's for sure.

Paige: I think it's crazy too, I been talking to a lot of sources for my other job in reporting in Ukraine and Russia and just that, luckily, we do live in a free country where there's a democracy, we have free press, and there, there is no free press. They have taken out all the independent news outlets and so the only news Russians are getting right now are from the government and it's very, very, very biased. They aren't saying it's a war. They're saying it's a” military operation.” They're saying they're doing so well and that everything they're doing is justified and so, it's scary to think that there's this propaganda that's able to exist today in 2022. That's a little terrifying and also, they just passed this week that if you criticize the invasion in Russia, that you could go to jail for fifteen years. So that means if you protest, even if you put a flag of Ukraine outside your apartment, you could potentially face prison time.

Ian: Yeah, it's intense these kinds of measures they're taking to smash this speech that's against the movement. There are so many Russians who feel like they're getting involved into war, into a conflict, and now we're seeing an economic crisis for something most of them don't support or don't understand the reasoning behind. A lot of them feel like Putin is not a good representation for them and he's just being a bully and doing what he wants. They can't really do anything about it so, I also feel a lot for the Russian people who are suffering as well. Obviously, Ukraine is the country being attacked but Russians as well feel like this is something unnecessary happening and they can't really do much about it unless they want to get thrown in jail. And it's extra tricky too, because just the complexities within the two countries themselves. We're talking about Ukraine used to be a part of the Soviet Union for a long time. They dissolved that border during that period of time so, they were essentially the same area, same country, and it was very common for families to move in and out of Ukraine and Russia. You have a lot of families now who maybe are Ukrainians living in Russia, or vice versa, because it was so common to cross these borders. So now we're seeing families having to choose a side. A lot of them have the sort of the dual identity and now they're having a crisis in terms of which side do I support? Which side do identify with? These are the kind of complexities you don't really think about when you just look on a map and see two different countries with their own established borders. It's a lot more complicated than that when you get to culture and so everybody's suffering due to Putin deciding to make this, I’ll call it selfish, rash decision in this way.

Paige: Yeah, it's definitely a move of just being able to be more powerful and the reasoning that the Ukrainian government is a bunch of Nazis when the President of Ukraine is Jewish is pretty silly. And I was talking and reading articles from experts and it makes sense when you look at what was happening in Ukraine that they were becoming more democratic, more progressive, and, like you said, that history matters that they were part of Russia. So, it's not so much a neighbor as a brother and sister and so, if you're in Russia, and you see Ukrainians getting more rights and having a lot more of these progressive policies passed, people in Russia are going to want that, and that's not what Putin wants. So, it makes sense that you have this democratic neighbor that will influence your citizens to want those same rights that he definitely doesn't want to give his people.

Paige: Hey, Ian. Did you know besides the podcast, Dynamic English offers one-on-one classes with native teachers from all over the world?

Ian: Really? But isn't it just a bunch of grammar lessons?

Paige: Nope, it's completely discussion-based and focuses on topics the student is interested in.

Ian: That's amazing. But what if I'm not living in Chile?

Paige: No problem. Dynamic does online classes. You can be living anywhere.

Ian: Great, but I'm a little intimidated to take the class alone. Can I join with a friend?

Paige: Of course. Dynamic offers group classes of up to four. Plus, for the next month, Coffee with Gringos listeners get 10% off individual or group classes. So go online to www.dynamicenglish.cl and mention that you are a listener and get your discount.

Ian: Well, I'm sold. Sign me up.

Ian: Some other things we are seeing too is a big economic backlash from the rest of the world. So, we're seeing the rest of the world condemning, well, the majority of the world is condemning what Putin and Russia are doing. There have been a lot of sanctions placed for commodities, for trading, for economic purposes, for banking, world banking. And it's all been frozen or countries are being sanctioned. There are sports leagues all over the world, for example, they're trying to get the Russian owners to sell off their teams and get out of Russian activities. There are soccer football teams that are dropping all their sponsors that are Russian and we're also seeing that within the country, the Russian ruble has fallen dramatically to the point where it's nearly worthless right now. And again, I go back to saying it really sucks for the Russian people, especially because they're suffering for these actions that their pretty ridiculous leader is deciding to do so. I think we've seen a global impact in this way and sort of reaction to say, “Look, we are not going to support you economically if you're going to be causing war.” And it's interesting to see how it disrupts the economic globe and we're already in a tough economic situation with COVID, with inflation. So, this is just, not really helping the situation for them, especially. What else have you noticed, backlash-wise, from your reporting that you've learned? What other things are having a ripple effect because of his invasion into Ukraine?

Paige: Yeah, I mean, a lot of people are trying to flee both Russia and Ukraine and so, you're having a huge refugee crisis in Europe. I mean, you're talking hundreds of thousands of people that are now going to be absorbed through neighboring countries, hopefully. So, it just created a huge humanitarian crisis and then from my reporting, talking to people in Russia, they're obviously afraid. They can't speak out against their leader or they'll go to prison, they have shut down Facebook, they have, as of today, I think shut down Twitter. They're basically trying to suppress and oppress everyone there from saying anything critical of this invasion. So, I think it is really scary times to live there. And also, all flights are canceled so, you can't leave and I've heard reports that people who are Russian who are trying to leave are getting harshly criticized and stopped at the borders because it's seen as his non loyalist, is unpatriotic to leave your country in this kind of time of crisis even though it's not good for them. Like you said, these sanctions are really hurting them where they can't go to banks, they can't take out their money, they can't buy certain products. Maybe some of their jobs have been lost because of these sanctions that they work in certain industries. But I think it's scary too, because you have a leader who's seems to be very self-motivated. So, who knows if he actually cares that this is hurting his people?

Ian: That's a good point. I think another interesting point to bring up too is Russia is deciding to invade a country that, to be quite honest, is well known for being very loyalist, very patriotic in Ukraine. They're very defense oriented, they've said “Okay, if you are eighteen to sixty, if you're a man, we want you to stay behind, we want you to train we want you to join the military.” There are women now who are, I've heard of there are instructional Tik Tok videos of people showing, “Okay, if you find a tank that's been left behind or we've captured from the Russians. This is how you operate it. This is how you use it. If you want to help defend our country.” A lot of people who could just cash out their money and run away from the country, including the president himself, they've stuck around and said, “No, we're not going to leave. We're going to defend our people, defend our country. This is an invasion and we're not just going to roll over for Russia.” I think there's something special in that and I think maybe Putin has underestimated that. Maybe he understands that, but I think outward to the world, the world is saying that Ukraine is not just going to roll over and it really means a lot to these people. So, I just think what people are worried about is this just keeps escalating right? We live in a world where we have so much nuclear power where just one finger press on the button on one person's and could start a nuclear war—could start World War three. I think that's what we're worried about getting into as a as a world. I think we have enough on our plate as it is, and I feel like another world war would definitely not be the right decision to go. Let's be honest, nobody wins really in any war. Everybody just loses in the end. So, it's been a rough few year and the idea of this escalating is got people on pins and needles, waiting to see what's going to happen.

Paige: Yeah, it's a terrifying thought. I think the threat of nuclear war, sadly, is real. There are people in the US that have gotten gas masks and have situated their basement and that's a terrifying thought that that's possible. Hopefully it will never go there but it is definitely a possibility when you have someone in leadership who has the capability and is pretty erratic. I hope that and soon I hope that the Ukrainian people are able to overcome and pretty soon so less lives are lost in this. As me and Ian said, this is evolving. It's only since February 24th that it started so this will be an ongoing situation. So, listeners if you get lost, check out the audio guide and transcript online make sure to follow this crisis because it's definitely one for the history books. So as always, thanks for listening.

Ian: We'll see you next time.

Paige: Coffee with Gringos was brought to you by Dynamic English, where you can learn English simply by using it. If you're interested in taking classes or just want to learn more, go to our website at dynamicenglish.cl. Thanks for listening.

Key Vocabulary, Phrases & Slang:

 1.     rumblings (noun):  discussions or news, an early indication or rumor of something to occur.

a.     There had been rumblings for weeks about the invasion.

2.     to brainwash (verb): to make someone adopt radically different beliefs by using systematic and forcible pressure, propaganda, etc.

a.      The Russian government has tried to brainwash its citizens for years.

3.     annexation (noun): to conquest and seizure of a land or territory.

a.     The Crimean annexation was a warning that happened in recent history.

4.     writing on the walls (idiom): signs and evidence that something is likely to happen in the future.

a.     Putin’s actions in the region were writings on the wall for what was to come.

5.     biased (adjective): unfairly prejudiced for or against someone or something.

a.     We will not tolerate this biased media coverage.

6.     to dissolve (verb): to close down or to be terminated.

a.     Borders were dissolved during the Soviet Union’s existence.

7.     rash (adjective): reckless, impulsive, not-thought out.

a.     He continues to make rash decisions without thinking of the consequences.

8.     backlash (noun): a strong and adverse reaction by a large number of people.

a.     The Russian people are causing a backlash despite possibly being put in prison.

9.     to disrupt (verb): to interrupt something by causing a disturbance or problem.

a.     These actions have caused the global economy to disrupt Russian involvement.

10.  ripple effect (noun): the continuing and spreading results of an event or action.

a.     The Russian people are feeling the unfortunate ripple effect of the invasion.

11.  on one’s plate (idiom): occupying one’s time and energy.

a.     The world has enough on its plate without Putin causing all these issues.

12.  on pins and needles (idiom): a state of worry, nervousness or fear.

a.      People are waiting on pins and needles to see what will happen next.

13.  erratic (adjective): uneven, unpredictable, not calm

a.     His decisions in the area are erratic and therefore causing stress.