Episode 128: The Death Penalty....For Better or Worse

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Ian: Hey everyone, you are listening to “Coffee with Gringos.” I'm Ian Kennedy.

Paige: And I'm Paige Sutherland.

Ian: Today we're going to be talking about a very contentious, controversial, and sometimes dark topic—that is the issue of the death penalty, also known as capital punishment. And so, the death penalty is the punishment of execution or killing someone who has committed a really heinous or terrible crime, in most cases it’s murder. This varies from country to country, the history of executions, the current state of them and so, Paige and I today thought it would be interesting for us to talk to our listeners about the death penalty in the US—its history, its current standings compared to other countries in the world. So, listeners, as usual, if you get lost go online and check out that audio guide and transcript. So, Paige—death penalty. This is one of those topics that a lot of people try to avoid at the dinner table with their family. A lot of people have pretty strong emotions about it, whether they're for or against it. Certainly not an easy conversation but it's one I think that's important to have. And so, the death penalty, it exists in some countries, it doesn't exist in other countries and so, it's good for us just to set the record straight. So, in terms of the US, we have quite a presence of the death penalty, would you say?

Paige: Yeah, I mean looking at the map for the various states, we have more states that have the death penalty than don't. It's not surprising for people in the US, the states that have it are what we call red states, which we've talked about in previous episodes, are more Republican and conservative states. They have the death penalty on the books where more blue states, which are Democratic and liberal, tend to have abolished the death penalty and it's really a state-by-state law, but federally the death penalty is legal. So, if there's a federal crime, such as say terrorism, that person, if they're found guilty could also get the death penalty. But you see, it really falls politically on what states have the death penalty or not. Like for me, I come from Massachusetts, which is a blue state, and we do not have the death penalty. Where Ian, you're from Missouri.

Ian: Yeah, and we definitely have the death penalty. Always have. The political way that a state swings or the political way that a state carries its policies often reflects its death penalty cases. So, I'm reading here that first of all, the US has committed a lot of executions and I would say the most in the world. Actually, I'm reading here that since the 1970s, in 1977, there have been over one thousand-five hundred executions for the death penalty. Even though we've seen a decline in the past two or three decades, the decline that we see is more in the states that have gone on to abolish it and like how you mentioned. So, while the executions have been technically less, we're seeing it more concentrated in those red states, in those places where it's kind of always existed or it's always been revered. So, for example, the states with the heaviest number of executions we can look at here are Missouri—my state gets there in that list—Oklahoma, Texas, Florida, Georgia, and some other states as well. But, in Texas, there have been over five hundred seventy executions since 1977. So, one thing is clear—if you want to commit a heinous crime, do not do it in Texas. They have no problem with killing. you. So, just a word to follow there, but it is interesting to look there at the differences in the states, and how they conduct these executions. What's interesting too is in the past it was a little bit more broad. You could be given the death penalty sentence for cases like armed robbery or for rape, and now it's a little bit more just, I think the policy is that someone has to have been killed. So, it's mostly murder cases, like homicide cases, things like this that we see people get put on death row. And death row is, basically, you are waiting in prison to be put to death, to be given the death penalty. So, if you are a prisoner on death row, you are considered like the worst of the worst, someone that's going to be put to death. So just an important term for our listeners there—death row.

Paige: Well, I think also, it's important to note, because some of our listeners are in countries where the death penalty doesn't exist and it's definitely evolved where I think when it was first enacted, it was death by firing squad, and it's evolved to the electric chair, which is awful as it sounds. And then now we have lethal injection which is more just injecting a deadly poison, so we have gotten a little more civilized, I guess you could say. But obviously, the state and government are still killing someone, and it's definitely an issue that people have strong views about on either side. And I think, as Ian said, death row, the reason why there is this term is because when the government does take someone's life, there's a lot of red tape in doing so. So, I mean the average person could be sentenced to death and not actually be killed for probably, they say the average is about ten years. So, they have so many appeals, they have so many ways to try to get out of the death penalty, so it's definitely something where you don't get sentenced and then you're killed the next day. It takes a lot of time to actually be put to death, which is good, because sadly in the US, we are a very racist country and, unfortunately, a lot of people who get put to death are minorities and there's a lot of wrongfully convicted people on death row. So, it's good to have that time to appeal if someone is on there, it doesn't serve to be right.

Ian: That's a good point to bring up because in the argument even against the death penalty. Those who are against it will say, look, there have been many people who have been put to death when we find out later that they were completely innocent. They weren't lying when they said “I didn't do it.” And it puts a knot in your stomach. It makes you just, it’s a terrible feeling to hear that someone's life was taken away unjustly. So, for this reason, whether you're for or against it, you need to have that due process, that due diligence, to make sure that this person truly is guilty. If you're going to kill someone, that's the most serious decision you can ever take, so there's no room for mistakes. There's no margin of error there.

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Paige: We haven't really got into it but obviously you're from a state that not only has it on the books but has very high numbers. I come from a state that it's not legal. What's your take on it, personally, Ian?

Ian: This is a tough one for me because, from a logistical standpoint and a practical standpoint, I don't think the death penalty is a good idea. We spend so much money on housing people on death row, all of the bureaucratic red tape that we talked about, all the money that gets spent to go through all the procedures to put them to death. All of this, it doesn't make sense and really just prisons, in general, we have too many people in prisons. So, from a logical standpoint, for me, I don’t know, I don't think it's a good thing from that standpoint, and also like we talked about, there are innocent people who get put to death, and once that happens, you feel awful about it. On the other side of it, on an emotional side or passionate side, if I had a family member or someone that got murdered by someone or something really horrible happened, I think it would be hard for me to say that I wouldn't want the other person to die. I don't think that—it's kind of an eye for an eye, a life for a life kind of a thing. It's really harsh, it's pretty Old Testament, it's easy for me right now to say that no one should be killed, everyone deserves a second chance, things like this but you know I truly, I can't honestly say that I would say that if a family member or a loved one died by the hands of someone else. Without that happening to me though, I would say, overall, I'm against the death penalty for the reasons mentioned before. Just make someone suffer in prison for the rest of their life if they have done something horrible as well and in a lot of cases, the death penalty is kind of an escape for somebody. Some people, they just want it—they do horrible things and they want to die. They want to be put out of their misery. So, in some cases keeping people alive and making them really repent for the bad actions they've done or for these things might be a more of an effective punishment in the end anyway. So, I think it's a really complicated issue, so I'd say overall I'm against it but, if the day comes where I'm in that situation, I might have a different answer. What about you, Paige?

Paige: I probably have pretty similar opinions. I think it's good that we have so many checks and balances because we have such a history of wrongfully convicting people and putting them to death, especially when it comes to their race. So, I like that there’s a lot of checks and balances but at the same time, if they do actually do the crime, it's very expensive for the government to pay for all those appeals, the lawyer fees, all that. So, from a, like you said, financial standpoint, it's cheaper to just have them in prison and I think it is bad but prisons here are bad. No one wants to be in a US prison, so I think that is punishment enough and we have very strict sentences where if you murder someone, you're probably going to spend the rest of your life in jail. So, I think that's a really good punishment for someone, where the death penalty isn't really necessary. And it's tough, it’s really tough because you're talking about someone's life but there are those cases that are just so heinous. Multiple murders and the way that these people are murdered where it is, like you said, tough to be like these people don't deserve to be living or even maybe they escape from jail or they win an appeal in some way and they could get out on the streets. So, I do understand for some of those really, really heinous crimes why people would want the death penalty but I would say, more or less, I'm against it.

Ian: The other thing that I've always thought is pretty dark about executions, at least in the US, that people are allowed to come and watch.

Paige: I was exactly going to say that. It's so odd. Maybe if they killed your whole family, that's like proof for you that you got justice but you don't need to see it. That's just so, I don't know, like sick, I guess.  

Ian: Yeah, it's really antiquated, it's archaic. It's like we're still living in Roman times of public executions and gladiators, things like this. You can come and watch someone die on death row. I mean, to me that's pretty fucked up. You know, like you said, even if they deserve it, I don't want to see somebody die. I don't want to see somebody go through that pain regardless of the situation. So, that's a part of it that's always bothered me, that we're supposed to be such civilized modern humans yet we still carry on these pretty barbaric traditions of executions—public executions. Yeah, I don't know.

Paige: Luckily, it is trending where I think more and more states each year are abolishing it. I saw last year, New Hampshire abolished the death penalty. So, like I said, you still have the majority of states in the US that have it, so it's still prevalent.

Ian:  And it's interesting, like you mentioned too, the differences in countries. So, for a lot of our listeners, for example here in Latin America, it seems like in the majority of countries in Latin America, the death penalty has gone away in recent years. In notable places like in Chile, the death penalty was repealed in 2001. And we see in other countries, it's been repealed in recent years: Brazil, El Salvador, Guatemala, Peru. It's not so common like in the US. I will say, it still exists for some exceptional cases like terrorism, war crimes, things like this that, I think are like we mentioned, special cases in most countries. Yeah, so, as we've discussed, the death penalty is a complicated and dark issue that exists in many different countries. Whether it's legal, whether for everything or for these heinous crimes or for these special cases, it's got a presence in most places in the world. And so, it's going to be interesting to see how it moves forward. Are we going to become more humane? Are we going to repeal the death penalty? Are we going to change this to life in prison? Who knows? Just like everything else that we're experiencing, not only in this year but in life in general, we're just going to have to see how things develop. So, as usual, listeners, if you get lost go online and check out that audio guide and transcript. Thanks for listening.

Paige: We'll see you next time.

Paige: “Coffee with Gringos” was brought to you by Dynamic English, where you can learn English simply by using it. If you’re interested in taking classes or just want to learn more, go to our website at dynamicenglish.cl. Thanks for listening.

Key Vocabulary, Phrases & Slang:

 1.     contentious (adjective): likely to cause an argument; controversial.

a.     The death penalty is a contentious issue for people to discuss.

2.     heinous (adjective): terrible; evil.

a.     The criminal was put on death row for his heinous crime.

3.     to set the record straight (idiom): to explain something clearly and truthfully.

a.     I want to set the record straight on the death penalty laws in the US.

4.     on the books (idiom): to be a law.

a.     The death penalty is on the books in most conservative states.

5.     to abolish (verb): to formally put an end to a system or practice.

a.     On the other hand, many liberal states have abolished the death penalty.

6.     to revere (verb): to feel deep respect and admiration for something.

a. The law has been revered for many years by certain groups of people.

7.     to enact (verb): to make something a law.

a.     The death penalty was enacted many years ago in the country.

8.     firing squad (noun): a group of soldiers who shoot and kill a condemned person.

a.     Death penalty by firing squad was very common until recent history.

9.     red tape (noun): excessive rules and bureaucracy.

a.     There is always a lot of red tape when someone is given the death penalty.

10.  minority (noun): a small group of people from a specific race, society, religion, etc.

a.     Unfortunately, minorities represent the largest number of imprisoned people.

11.  to appeal (verb): to challenge a court’s decision in a legal trial and request a reversal of the decision.

a.     The death row inmate is going to appeal for a new trial because of new evidence.

12.  put a knot in your stomach (idiom): to make you feel very uncomfortable.

a.     It puts a knot in my stomach to hear about innocent people being put to death.

13.  eye for an eye (idiom): the idea that someone who causes someone else to suffer should suffer in an equal amount.

a.     People who support the death penalty often think with an eye for an eye attitude.

14.  harsh (adjective): unpleasantly rough; severe.

a.     Many view the death penalty as too harsh and would prefer to make prisoners live in prison for their entire lives instead. 

15.  Old Testament (noun, adjective): referring to the first half of the Bible which contains a lot of violence and revenge.

a.     I think that the death penalty is pretty Old Testament and we should be more humane.

16.  to repent (verb): to feel or express regret about one’s actions.

a.     Even if prisoners repent for their wrongdoings, many feel that it’s not enough.

17.  checks and balances (noun): the balancing system of an organization that regulates and ensures that political power is not unevenly concentrated.

a.     Checks and balances ensure that not too much power is placed in the hands of one person.

18.  antiquated (adjective): old-fashioned or outdated.

a.     The antiquated prison system needs to be updated to reflect modern times.

19.  archaic (adjective): antiquated or old-fashioned.

a.     The archaic act of killing someone in prison is an issue that many people want to change.

20.  barbaric (adjective): very cruel; brutal; primitive

a.     The man was put on death row for his barbaric murders.

21.  prevalent (adjective): common; frequent; widespread.

a.     The death penalty is still prevalent in many places today.