Episode 120: Argentina Legalizes Abortion After Years-long Fight

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Paige: You are listening to “Coffee with Gringos.” I'm Paige Sutherland.

Ian: And I’m Ian Kennedy.

Paige: And today we are going to talk about quite a historic moment that happened right before the new year. Argentina passed abortion—up to fourteen weeks of pregnancy—which has been a fight that they have been having for years now. Two years ago, it failed in the Senate, and on the 30th of December, the Senate passed it and the president said that he will sign it. So, this was a big victory for a lot of women in Argentina and activists who have been really on the frontlines fighting for this. So, me and Ian will talk about it today, the importance of it for the region, what this means in the future. So again, listeners if you get lost, check out that audio guide and transcript online. So, Ian—quite a surprise. We've had a lot of bad news this past year, but I think this was a big win for activists and a lot of women in the region. What were your thoughts? Were you surprised?

Ian: Yeah, I agree. I think that because of all the craziness we've had just recently within the last year—in the last months—this news can get overshadowed a little bit by some bigger headlines, but I think it's important to point out that this is this is a milestone. This is a big deal, especially in such a conservative region of the world, because, Argentina has the reputation for historically being a very Catholic, conservative region for the most part. So, it's really important to see these things happen in areas where we have sort of a growing feminist movement, which is just happening a lot in the majority of Latin America. We see it in Argentina, Chile, Brazil, I'm sure numerous other countries. We're seeing a changing of hands and a changing of culture that, like you said, it's been a long fight, politically and culturally. This is a big change for Argentinians and it's definitely a big deal.

Paige: I was there in Chile when the Senate voted against it two years ago and it really came out of this huge feminist movement in Argentina that was mostly about women's rights, particularly against violence against women, but that really kind of spurred legalizing abortion. And you would see probably these green handkerchiefs that was all about free abortion, and that came out of Argentina. And you would see it all across Latin America and that was kind of the symbol of the fight for abortion rights throughout the region. And so, it really started in Argentina, this new movement of trying to get abortion legalized and so it's great to see that this grassroots feminist movement was eventually able to create change and I think we're going to see other neighboring countries kind of jump on their backs and hopefully get this legalized throughout the region. Because right now to have an abortion freely is only in Cuba, Uruguay and Guyana, and so there's not a lot of countries in the region that you can freely get an abortion. Most countries either prohibit it, or it's only in cases of rape or in cases where the baby will die or the mother will die. So, it's very, very restricted. This is really a big move, like you said, in a region that is so tied to Catholicism.

Ian: Exactly. And, there's a really powerful quote from one of the female senators named Sylvia Sapag, and she said that “When I was born, women could not vote, could not inherit, we could not manage our assets, we could not have bank accounts, we didn't have credit cards, we couldn't go to university.” So, when she was born, she says “women were nobody.” So, if we look just even within the lifetime of one person, we can see this big difference, this big shift in women's rights and allowing more freedom in these areas which have been constricted by conservatism. We're also talking about the country that has its first Catholic Pope. So, Pope Francis is a big idol of this area of Argentina as the first Argentinian Pope. It's interesting because as a Catholic he's against the idea of abortion, and so it's interesting to see a symbol like him that has a lot of pride from the country, it's still very split. There's still a big movement of saying we need more rights. The country is becoming more secular, which is another reason why we're seeing more of these freedoms being given, more of these protests happening, and it's just showing a big shift. It's saying to the world that things aren't going to stay like they were in the past. They're going to keep advancing, we're going to keep moving towards having more rights and freedoms. Like you said, I think the effects of this vote are going to ripple across the continent—maybe later than sooner—but it's definitely going to have the impact on these countries that a lot of their policies are dictated by looking to their neighboring countries and seeing what they're doing. I think especially like here in Chile, you saw yourself when you were here, there's such a growing feminist movement, such a growing movement for the people, and for people's rights in general that this might even get tacked on to this whole wave of the new referendum—of the constitutional voting—that's happening. Fingers crossed this gains more momentum here in Chile and other parts of the continent and this will allow women to have more rights to make these decisions. Abortion is a reality, whether you want to accept it or not. It's a reality and so you have to face the problem at some point in a responsible and realistic way.

Paige: Agreed. I mean, I think that is a push for it is that, unfortunately, women are going to get abortions and when it's not legal, they do it in a very unsafe way. I was reading that thousands of women in Argentina are hospitalized each year because of bad abortions they have to get in the shadows and some of these women die because of it. So, it's kind of something where you might not be for abortion but they're still going to be happening. You might as well have them by medical professionals in a safe way where they can be done properly.

Ian: Exactly. And just like we're saying it's a reality so you can say it doesn't exist if you want to but you're just lying yourself. You need to allow people to have these options. And, again, like what we're talking about, I think, as we see the world become more and more secular, more open-minded, less tied and less constricted by religion and by conservatism, I think we'll see these views start to spread to more of these areas. But it is tough because this isn't something you can just change overnight. It takes a lot to turn that boat around. It might be coming at a snail's pace for some people in their minds, but at least it's happening, and we're not stuck in the dark ages of not having any of these kinds of rights.

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Paige: Yeah, when I first moved to Chile, I was just looking into a lot of issues of things that I'd be interested in reporting on and this was an issue that really stuck out to me because I live in the US—that is where I was raised, that is the kind of the culture I was used to—and so abortions have been legal since the seventies. I mean, we're talking fifty years of it being legal for all women up to a certain term in the pregnancy. So, when you come to the region of Latin America and it's not only not legal in most countries, you can get arrested for it, it's only legal in cases of rape and these kinds of horrible stories. But as we've seen kind of in the Trump administration, just because it's been legal for fifty years doesn't mean it will stay legal. So, it's kind of this ongoing fight still in the US. I mean, we have a Supreme Court here that is pretty conservative that talks about rolling back some of these rights on abortion. So, unfortunately this is kind of a fight that is still even happening even though it's been legal here for fifty years.

Ian: Another good quote from this Argentina event is someone said, “this is the floor and not the ceiling.” So, meaning that this is just the beginning of fighting for more rights. Like you mentioned, even once the law is established, it doesn't mean it's going to be around forever. It doesn't mean it's safe as law. These things can be rolled back, they can be changed. So, even if you establish this law, the fight is not over. You have to keep pushing for it to exist and keep expanding on those freedoms.

Paige: Also, I mean, as we mentioned, every country, and in the US case, every state has their own law on how many weeks you can abort. And so, fourteen weeks is pretty short. So, I think going off your quote of “this isn't the ceiling, this is just the floor” is that when you do the math of fourteen weeks, you don't even know you're pregnant for probably almost two months. So, you really have just a couple weeks to decide if you want to keep the baby or not once you figure it out. I think that in other states, it's more around the twenty-week range that is legal. So yeah, pretty short but, like we talked about, to go from no legal abortions freely to any number of weeks I think is a huge victory. I think we'll see, probably, more pushes to extend that in the future, I would imagine.

Ian: Yes, it'll be interesting to see how this develops, what other countries get on board and I think we're going to be seeing a lot more green handkerchiefs in the streets of Latin America in the next coming months and coming years.

Paige: Absolutely. So, like Ian said, unfortunately, with all the news around the world these days being so dark, we kind of missed something that's really positive in the region. Just seeing people rise up, this huge grassroots movement, and really achieve what they were looking for is really a great story. So, listeners of you get lost, check out that audio guide and transcript online. Thanks for listening.

Ian: We'll see you next time.

Paige: “Coffee with Gringos” was brought to you by Dynamic English, where you can learn English simply by using it. If you’re interested in taking classes or just want to learn more, go to our website at dynamicenglish.cl. Thanks for listening.

Key Vocabulary, Phrases & Slang:

 1.     to overshadow (adjective): to appear much more important or prominent than something else.

a.     The news was overshadowed by the craziness of the year.

2.     milestone (noun): an action or event with a significant change or stage in development.

a.     The vote was a huge milestone for the movement.

3.     changing of hands (idiom): changing of the people in power.

a.     The changing of hands in the government has allowed for the law to pass.

4.     to spur (verb): to give an incentive or encouragement to cause something to happen.

a.     The movement spurred the legalization of abortion in the country.

5.     handkerchief (noun): a square piece of cotton or other material.

a.     The green handkerchiefs symbolize the abortion rights movement.

6.     grassroots (adjective): ordinary people being the main body of an organization’s membership.

a.     The grassroots movement began many years ago.

7.     to jump on the back of something (idiom): to ride or benefit from the efforts of something else.

a.     Maybe other countries will jump on the back of Argentina’s abortion law and will spread across the region.

8.     to inherit (verb): to receive money, property, etc. from the death of someone.

a.     The senator remembered a time with women couldn’t inherit.

9.     constricted (adjective): restricted; limited.

a.     The culture has been constricted by religious organizations for decades.

10.  split (adjective): divided; separated.

a.     The country is still very split regarding the abortion law.

11.  secular (adjective): non-religious.

a.     Latin America and most of the world are becoming more and more secular.

12.  to ripple (verb): to spread through a person, group, place, culture, etc.

a.     The effects will ripple in the region during the next years.

13.  to tack on (phrasal verb): to add to something already existing.

a.     Legal abortion could be tacked on to the upcoming referendum vote.

14.  in the shadows (idiom): secretly; out of public view.

a.     Many women have to get abortions in the shadows because it is illegal.

15.  snail’s pace (noun): an extremely slow speed.

a.     Even though the changes are happening at a snail’s pace, it is better than nothing.

16.  to roll back (verb): to reverse or change a decision.

a.     The government could still vote to roll back the law in the future.

17.  to do the math (idiom): to calculate; to count.

a.     When you do the math, fourteen weeks is not very much time to make such a big decision.

18.  to get on board (adjective): to agree with an action or opinion.

a.     Hopefully, other countries will get on board and pass similar laws.